OUTLAW EAGLE MANUFACTURING

[Itsworthit]

I think all sbfx abd bbfx should have factory sealed motors, and get the extra speed from the hulls

[sandman]

I'm with you on that Carey, don't the sprint cars do that? Maybe some of our wheel driven, gear-head breathren can enlighten us to these classes of racing.

[TOP DAWG]

Yep they do, and there's actually a sealed 400 or so HP small block in the GM performance book, the intake manifold, and timing cover bolts have a seal on them that prevents anyone from tampering with them. This might be an option

[MISSBHAVEN]

I'm not aware of a "sealed" big block available. We would have to dedicate only one engine builder to build the engines and this would probably drive the cost up alot, but it may be our best option over the long run. As well, the only feedback I've been hearing "indirectly" from our more popular boat race engine builders is that they are very negative about this whole BBFX idea. I would think that an engine builder that was able to see the "big picture" of the future of our sport would realize that FX classes are the key to maintaining and growing our sport. Just look at how the SBFX class has grown and how we constantly have problems getting enough C, B, A and unlimited boats at each race to fill their own class. Some people argue that there is always a shortage of boats after a World's event, but I don't remember in the last few years a race that had 3-4 boats max in each class, not like 9-Fx boats in both PR and GP this year, immediately after a Worlds event. Without SBFX, the GP and PR races wouldn't have been held at all as there would have only been a total of 8 and 9 race boats competing, respectively. I think it's pretty clear that FX classes are the key to our sports future!

It seems that there are enough racers interested in starting a BBFX, some will be new racers and some racers will move over from other classes, resulting in a "net growth effect". The total amount of racers will grow, not shrink as some people fear.

I don't know if a sealed engine is the only answer as using "Spec heads and Intake" would make things very difficult for the cheaters. For the most part, aren't the most important "power" parts or factors in the in the engine that need to be regulated are the heads, intake, carb engine size, compression and cam? All the other parts don't play a "big" part in producing power. Brodix already makes Spec heads (BB2 Plus - and they are cheaper and more available than GM heads) and Intake for a APBA class that are specifically designed to be easily inspected for "cheat porting". The cam allowed can be restricted to only the stock GM cam or a specific manufactures cam part #. There are many other successful types of racing in North America that use "Spec Heads". We don't have to reinvent the wheel here.

I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this, but in an "ideal" world and if a person was starting from scratch, IMHO the classes should or could be

- SBFX - 85+/- mph engine cost $4500+/- sealed GM crate engine

- 502FX - 95+/- mph engine cost $15,000 +/- ($20,000+ for a custom sealed engine)

- 572FX - 105 +/- mph engine cost $15,000 +/- ($20,000+ for a custom sealed engine)

- Unlimited 115+mph engine cost $45,000+++++ (except turbine which is a whole other discussion)

I realize that this isn't realistic to expect things to change this much, however if the classes were structured like this, all the classes would be fast, economical and very competitive,.........and if someone wanted to go faster and have a custom built race engine, they could go in Unlimited. Also, in the FX classes, the guy with deep pockets would have very little to no advantage over the guy who was willing to spend the extra time in tuning their hull.

[Will R]

lol no worries Jesse its good to have opinions!I've talked to buddy in the states that builds the majority of the race engines down there and hes says not to use the zz502 as it wont stand up,they've even had block failures with them.he uses a world or dart block callies crank,corrila or Oliver rods and forged pistons hes totally booked till spring and not taking on any new projects but as soon as i mentioned that it was for jet boat racing here in Canada it was a totally different story lol.and he uses spec heads and intake. he left a message for me that he has prices put to gether for us just didn't get a chance to call him today damn work thing again lolthe prices im getting from him are from carb to pan and dyno tuned throw em in the boat and pin er sorta packages.as soon as i talk to him ill post everything hear to see what everyone thinks of it.hes an old racer to so should be believable.

[RPM]

if the BBFX goes and C class was restricted to make around 500HP , it would be cool to run them to together

[DOC]

C Is already restricted to around 500 hp.

[RPM]

going to show us the dyno sheet your engine must of had 600

[Will R]

why must he have 600hp?because he was fast?remember set up,fine tuning,try this try that,I know for a fact there has been countless hours spent dialing that boat in,and it paid off in the long run so congrats on that doc!another example in the states old time racer and probably the fastest bbfx boat out there before he wrecked at the worlds was Dean Saxon.He runs the 100mph mark and has told me there is times where he was well i n excess of that.That being done with an older heavy eagle 21ft tunnel.another example and I think most impressive was in sbfx this year! rpm you think that its gotta be horsepower you outta check out Eight-Track.there is a few boats in sbfx scratching at the 90mph mark.Richard Grant flippin near wore a motor out just setting his boat up and look how it'd paid off for him.I might as well through this out there instead of this speed restriction or horse power restriction or bitch about this or bitch about that worried if the next guy is cheating or not.Just bring back the flippin claimer class but move the money up from what it was to like 10 or 15g's

[RPM]

Doc , I called B.S. on your last year engine having only 500 hp . I sure as hell didn't say that you didn't work your ass off getting your set-up right to get the most out of your boat , which you surely did !!!!
we raced beside 8-Track quite a bit last year so for them to be where they are this year they definately have done their homework to get their boat working . that older boat that McGregor's raced in FX last year is another example of getting the spoon to lift the boat and load the pump , i think they picked up 5 mph or more working on it after the races started .
everybody thats got a boat ready to race knows about the countless hours of preparation and the frustration of two or three steps back for every one step forward when testing . the winners are definately going to have put in the time to get there .

[Family Affair]

BBFX may be a thing of the future, the only problem will be the crate 502, the engine is not reliable. With that being said the engine can be made reliable with some work. Bottom line is that a well thought out modification spec sheet that the racers could follow would do it.
We have been thinking about selling our FX boat after Whitecourt and going to a B boat for next year so this could be the alternative.
On the point of cheaters; this will always be, if someone needs to win that bad all you can do is feel sorry for them.

[DOC]

Yah your right i lied a little bit, i just pulled out my dyno sheet and it made 513.7 hp at 6000 rpm, which is where i run it for the whole race, 503.6 ft/lbs torque. I know tim and noels are very close, but i dont know what rpm they were running them at. If you dont believe me ill bring the dyno sheet to the races in whitecourt.

[allblowdup]

You are right there will always be cheaters and if they win a little to much then they get caught and once they do they are branded for life. A good set of rules that is easy to follow would work good. More of what you can change from the crate class as appossed to what you can't.

Doc if it was 503@6000 then that is 574 hp.

[DOC]

I was just sayin what it made at 6000, 800 horsepower at 7000 doesnt do you any good if you run it at 6000.

[DOC]

YEH 574 is corrected to sea level, were not at sea level, so why would you use that number. Now that i have a weather station whitecourt is rarely below 4000 feet density altitude. Thats a long ways from sea level.